This morning was the first time I ever opened WebComic + Inkblot, the first thing I did was look at the code. Let me show you what I found. ComicPress 3.0 vs WebComic + Inkblot 2.1.1
I wanted to test the page load and memory usage of both systems that are just straight bare-bones upon installation. I added the following to the footer of Inkblot since it didn’t have it to ‘show’ it’s users.
<p><?php echo get_num_queries() ?> queries. <?php $unit=array('b','kb','mb','gb','tb','pb'); echo @round(memory_get_usage(true)/pow(1024,($i=floor(log(memory_get_usage(true),1024)))),2).' '.$unit[$i]; ?> Memory usage. <?php timer_stop(1) ?> seconds.</p>
What this line does is give the amount of SQL queries that the system uses, how much memory it uses and how long it took for the page to compile and load PER USER ACCESS. Without any extra added plugins. Take note though this is done on a server with opcode cache’ing to begin with, while ComicPress knows how to deal with Memory, WebComic does not.
OpCode Cache’ing cache’s the PHP code, it is the preferred way of cache’ing if you have it available.
Let’s start with ComicPress (to try to be more fair I set it to the 3C theme so it had 2 sidebars there WITH default widgets that load):
47 Queries, 3.25MB Memory Usage, 0.117 seconds load time.
Now let’s look at InkBlot (no default widgets loading only one sidebar active)
Oh wait, you CANT, Inkblot requires a Plugin to actually work. ComicPress does not, you name the files put them in the comics directory and associate the categories in the comicpress-config.php and that’s all you need for a functioning working system.
So moving on, I added the WebComic Plugin and now its:
54 Queries, 15.75 MB mem used and loads in 0.574 seconds
I’m sorry, why? ^ clearly wtf. Just to be fair I activated ComicPress Manager.
47 Queries, 3mb mem usage and load time of 0.175 seconds.
Moving on.
Phil, your support of the webcomics community and your commitment to serving the products you put your name on is unparalleled! I’d still be using frontpage/html if it weren’t for CP and the help you’ve offered!
With CP, you can be a novice at this stuff and still pull off a decently functioning site. Add in some help from you and it turns into something you never thought you could offer your readers! You’ve managed to take a task (self made website design) that is daunting to many and have made it accessible and easy to understand!
I’m always humbled when you take the time to help out with things, so thank you for that! =)
I agree with jynksie, my website would definitely lame if ComicPress wasn’t around. It rocks! Everyone knows it.
I’m very new to the webcomic space and I initially started building my webcomic on CP mainly because it seemed to be the only show in town. The vast amount of features and customisations are nice for someone who wants to immerse themselves in all that. I simply want to focus on my comic and WC+IB appeared to be a better choice for me, which is why I removed my CP setup and finalising my webcomic look and feel with WC+IB.
Webcomics isn’t my life — I have a young family, business and other creative endeavors. I spent a few weeks in CP forums and studying best practices, but the learning curve of all the features was more than I needed. In contrast, I spent a warm Saturday afternoon going through WC+IB documentation and watching some very comprehensive videos on VIMEO which got me up to speed in a weekend. It was liberating to know I had a choice in how to present/distribute my webcomic and I didn’t have to commit so much time upfront on the losing end of a learning curve.
Does that make me less intellectual or talented? Does that make CP users more complex and WC+IB users less powerful in the webcomicsphere? Not at all.
Phil, I have respect for what you do and applaud the strides you’ve made. While I have embraced WC+IB over CP, it’s not about a superior vs inferior infrastructure, it’s about what works for you as an individual webcomic creator. If this community is about the progression of webcomics — and you’re not out to belittle creators on their CMS choice — your summary doesn’t seem to implicate that. It felt as though it had a thin, condescending coating put on just for those who chose WC+IB.
It’s impossible to take it personally, but I hope the webcomic community doesn’t become split into cliques of who uses what (if it hasn’t already). Maybe this post has an underlying current I’m not aware of because I’m a newbie. I just want to get along as best I can, interact, learn, share best practices with some amazing talent while bringing some laughter into my world and the world of those who read my stories. I believe the “real deal” is what allows you to convey what’s in your mind and heart, not how much code and options one has or doesn’t have.
I respect your decision on what you choose, it’s my firm belief to go with what you feel is best for you as well.
Unfortunately with the attacks we’ve been getting from WebComic + Inkblot fanatics. I put together a set of their references that they claim is their reasoning behind sticking behind their CMS of choice and belittling the alternatives. One of their references is “Features” As I have shown, W+I does not have the features a WebComic author could use to produce an outstanding presence on the web. A good presence, sure. Another reference is ‘bloated’. As you can see with a proper hosting W+I does not know how to manage its memory space (per page load, i.e not complete run time). Further along is the designing of your site. W+I is very limited with the CSS and areas you have available to skin, while both systems utilize the same function based area a user of ComicPress will be able to skin his site better then that of W+I, I have shown in the post that not only does W+I utilize the same structure as W+I for designing that we go further and allow even more control.
Whether this is a push or not is your choice to interpret, I’m answering those users who are addressing those particular points as their reasoning.
If the post sounds obtrusive in anyway it’s nothing less then Mike would do. Example in Mikes thread discussion says: “Despite it’s shortcomings” and more.
http://groups.google.com/group/webcomic-discuss/browse_thread/thread/d8b8d36d43c0de56#
Mike has consistently belittled ComicPress and anyone who uses it with the ‘ours’ is better mentality. If I’m not allowed to talk like that, then he shouldn’t either, since any incites that have occurred have stemmed from his behavior to begin with.
I have stayed silent, turning the other cheek sort of speaking since the beginning, however as his animosity grows, his user base gets further involved in it; it’s just not proper behavior for anyone to keep.
This is for Greylilly: http://frumph.net/greylillybeinginciteful.txt
Thanks for responding and sharing, I appreciate it. Thankfully, I don’t have to take sides
From what I’ve seen, you guys are both respected, genuine and passionate about webcomics and it would be sad for either user base to get mired in the crossfire. CP and W+I provide a product/service that enables dreams to come true. Period.
I guess the topic of “which is better” will always be an ongoing debate but I wish it could be a fun rivalry that pushes each developer to provide increased service to the end users rather than brewing animosity.
I sincerely hope you and Mike resolve your differences; in the interim, I will continue to enjoy the discovery of all these webcomics published on CP and W+I while I get mine off the ground. Again, thanks for the background — you didn’t have to respond and you did.
Phil,
I’m still in the process of building my testbed for Webcomic/Inkblot but these are the Pro’s and Con’s I have stumbled upon.
Pros:
Keyboard Shortcuts for navigation. (This may be a minor thing buts it’s nice to have on a laptop.
Buffer Alert (Interesting idea, not sure if it’s really a GREAT feature, but interesting none the less.
Ease of Installation (You install one theme and one plugin as opposed to comicpress where it is one theme and two plugins.)
Cons:
Lack of something similar to the Companion plugin that allows for a custom css look that (in theory at least) will not be overwritten when upgrading.
Setting the dimensions seemed to take several tries for it to take.
This is minor and nit picky but the settings page could use some help, it is not ascetically pleasing, the unrelated settings might be better off grouped in boxes making it easier on the eyes.
One thing I would love to see in either system is one unified sidebar for them. Not one thing in Appearance and another in it’s own sidebar area.
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/keyboard-navigation/
There’s an addon plugn to allow keyboard shortcuts for navigation.
ComicPress is 1 theme installation, everything else just gives you assistance with working the theme, none of the other ones are required.
CSS and knowledge of CSS is a tough one for whatever website you use whether its wordpress or your own custom and totally understood. Unified menu area is available in the CP 3.0 release, everything’s in it’s own area. It was ‘easier’ to just attach it to certain areas but we gave it a facelift and it’s all together.
The original thinking was when people saw ‘appearance’ they know that you were working with the themes appearance and the manager in it’s own area denoted it came from the manager itself. It’s one of those preference things.
Hey Phil,
I figured there was a plugin for the navigation, thanks for the link though.
I think I just liked the fact it was built in to Webcomic.
One thing Webcomic is lacking however is a buy this print feature. I’m not sure if other creators find this useful but as a reader I have, I have used it on a few comics.
And while the other plugins are not REQUIRED they certainly ENHANCE the user experience.
I am going about my test of the two differently then you, you are seeing all the coding and load issues. I am trying to look at the two products objectively as an end user.
At this point in my test, ComicPress is still the winner in terms of balancing ease of use with flexibility in the layout/design of the site.
In my experience, I found Webcomic and Inkblot a GOD SEND, so-to-speak, for user freindliness. I converted when Webcomic was maybe a month old… so that means I was using the ComicPress from around that time.
The problem with ComicPress (then anyway) was that the options were weak and chapter methods were non-existent. Not to mention that ComicPress frequently broke upon massive design editing, or when upgrading to a new WordPress…. Webcomic and Inkblot did not.
Now, with 2.8 and 2.9, I could be convinced to try and see how it works now. In fact, I might try to make a new site using each. Once I get some time, I’ll try to make 2 of the same site with each publishing tool. Then I can really see how easy it would be to set up, edit, update, organize and publish comics.
I could wait for Webcomic+Inkblot 3.0 and ComicPress 3.0… but it sounds like ComicPress 3.0 (or the Premium) might be so different from previous inceptions to really count. I would, however, compare Webcomic+Inkblot 2.x and ComicPress 2.x.
I don’t belittle the work and time that Frumph and others put into ComicPress. I understand it’s a lot of work. But I switched because ComicPress failed me and didn’t have the options I wanted and needed.
I am, however, interested in giving it another go. From what I’ve been told, I’m interested to see what’s in whatever that “Premium” was/is going to do… tho only if free, and I can have at it, like any other theme and plugin. I design my own sites.
When the time comes, in spite of the mud-slinging and spite between everyone on all sides, I’ve extended an invitation to Frumph and his coding friend to come on The Webcomic Beacon to promote and discuss ComicPress and/or “Premium”. Because that’s only fair (esp since we’ve already extensively talked about Webcomic+Inkblot). And no, not Fox pundit style; where we accuse him of hating America without letting him finish talking.
So, the offer stands.
“Not to mention that ComicPress frequently broke upon massive design editing, or when upgrading to a new WordPress”
When your working with CSS it’s YOUR CSS modifications that broke the look to it, had nothing to do with ComicPress. Unless you went in and edited the actual theme files themself, then it’s still *your* bad and you referencing it as a ComicPress fault is pretty lame. I would be happy to help you with CSS for whatever website your working on.
That’s a common misconception, when you’re working with the CSS and you mess something up or can’t figure out the CSS you’re blaming what you’re working with. Being how W+I does not have a lot of CSS it is definitely easier for you to deal with, but then you do not have some things that could be beneficial when your designing your site.
At the time when you switched over is when 2.7 was released, from 2.8 on it’s been all my work in development to increase it’s overall potential for the end user.
ComicPress didn’t fail you. You got frustrated with not being able to skin the theme to your liking and you keep blaming it on ComicPress. In that specific instance is your entire animosity that you have lived by whenever you praise W+I over ComicPress and it had nothing to do with CP or W+I but your own lack of knowledge of CSS.
Again, the knowledge is *on* the internet everywhere for CSS, just google for help or go to w3c schools. There are also tools on the net for you to find CSS elements to modify.
We haven’t finalized anything on Premium yet. As far as that stands it’s possible that no-one will see it unless they get it from a designer with one of the designers packages. If you don’t want to buy a site design from us, then you don’t need to have it in the first place. CP is fine and still better then anything else out there.
I must have been using ComicPress 2.4 or 2.5 then, because I likely didn’t update it anymore after the first couple times I tried it.
I think most of my issues at the time (as far as skinning), was that I wanted things that would be positioned over several of ComicPress’s “break points” or “zones”. Either my edits would push certain zones into other areas, and I couldn’t remove certain zones or edit them too much without graphics or something doing something weird. I considered them a pain, and not very straight forward.
I think I was also mostly using HTML code then, too. Same for when I was editing Webcomic+Inkblot for the first time. I was using HTML instead of CSS for most of the code editing.
Again, I have not looked at ComicPress since 2.4/5
I haven’t tried Webcomic+Inkblot so I can’t comment on it but I will say I’ve been using Comicpress for a year and a half and can’t imagine anything easier or more feature-ridden. I practically learned CSS just in the process of getting my site how I wanted it, and every time an update came out, it had ANOTHER feature I couldn’t live without.
But the main reason I’ve never even thought about switching/testing is the support. Between the forums and a kick-ass developer team, I’ve never been stuck on a problem for more than an hour. One tweet or drop-in to the Frumph.net chat and my question is answered right away. And it’s answered in a way that makes it really easy to understand and fix the problem.
Kudos. I would have never started my webcomic if CMS stuff like Comicpress and Webcomic+Inkblot didn’t exist. It would be loaded in a crappy (Zuda) Flash player or something. Buh.
I don’t think it’s an issue of which is better as much as “which one did you try first and did you get used to it”. I’m used to it, I’m used to the kick-ass support, so I’m sticking with Comicpress.
I still want 3.0 and I’m more than willing to pay people for their hard work that makes my day easier. Don’t let all this backlash slow you guys down.